Momento Mori
Sergeant
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I may be missing something, but shouldnt the shattered ring origin override the habitability to ringworlds just like the habitat origin does?
Bug or feature?
DreadLindwyrm
Augustus of the North
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Momento Mori said:
I may be missing something, but shouldnt the shattered ring origin override the habitability to ringworlds just like the habitat origin does?
Bug or feature?
It would be a lot harsher because you don't have the facility to build new ringworlds with the origin.
You'd be crippled until end game.
Dustman
General
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DreadLindwyrm said:
It would be a lot harsher because you don't have the facility to build new ringworlds with the origin.
You'd be crippled until end game.
At least it would balance things out. Relic/Gaia/Habitats are still there, plus robots. Compare it to Life-Seeded. Still, very good for despoiler/NA runs.
tinculin
Major
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A ring world is quite a bit stronger than a habitat though, eh?
plus you could just take droids & colonise with them.
CompactDisc
Captain
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Living on a ring world is very similar to living on a gaia world.
So yes, I would say that habitability should be gaia world.
Those two are the same really.
Olix
Second Lieutenant
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The Shattered Ring origin does seem to be the most powerful one. 20 researchers right from the start is a hell of a head start. There is even a mechanic to pay for the district maintenance costs for you!
Anything that nerfs it a bit would be welcome. Forcing the species to Ring World preference would be a good idea.
Fox McCloud
First Lieutenant
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Forcing species to a ring world preference will make this origin pretty much useless.
You'll have practically zero capacity to produce alloys or minerals unless you get incredibly lucky with high mineral deposits in the systems around you---and no good way to get more minerals either aside from just blobbing out everywhere.
I'm not sure if it's better/worse than void dwellers though.
Void dwellers is going to have huge pop growth and the ability to utilize habitat specializations to really drive hyper-focused builds--I wouldn't be all surprised that, once theorecrafing and testing is done, someone figures out that void dwellers is likely the best/fastest "research/unity/etc" build in the game--the +15% output is extremely high, and some of the (fairly strong) habitat specializations just pushes that line even more.
Not going to deny that it's strong, but making it into Life Seeded 2.0 just destroys the origin.
L
Less2
Field Marshal
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Fox McCloud said:
Forcing species to a ring world preference will make this origin pretty much useless.
You'll have practically zero capacity to produce alloys or minerals unless you get incredibly lucky with high mineral deposits in the systems around you---and no good way to get more minerals either aside from just blobbing out everywhere.
Yep, Ringworld would get screwed hard if it was unable to colonize anything and was unlucky enough to not be able to conquer/migrate pops of other habitabilities. This goes especially for hiveminds who now ironically need the most minerals for power their researches (heaven help someone who has picked a lithoid hivemind ringworld). Void Dweller can at least prosper for some low bar of prospering. 3k alloys is certainly a lot but you can certainly get enough minerals to fuel that and start snowballing up with more mineral/research habitats.
Fox McCloud said:
Void dwellers is going to have huge pop growth and the ability to utilize habitat specializations to really drive hyper-focused builds--I wouldn't be all surprised that, once theorecrafing and testing is done, someone figures out that void dwellers is likely the best/fastest "research/unity/etc" build in the game--the +15% output is extremely high, and some of the (fairly strong) habitat specializations just pushes that line even more.
Not going to deny that it's strong, but making it into Life Seeded 2.0 just destroys the origin.
Its definitely not the best because it still doesn't give you an 84 pop 3 colony start like Hegemony/Common Ground does.
Also, with how research works, +15% research isn't quite as great as it seems. Its quickly weakened by all of the +20% research bonuses running around along with the fact that research is now far more about getting big quickly rather than stacking research bonuses. The Void Dweller trait is most effective as an Alloy/Fleet booster for early conquest, which will snowball your growth quicker.
Dr. Crabnipples
Captain
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lets not forget the massive research bonus ringworlds give due to their limitless researches in their district. 400 tech in 2210....... yeah pretty sure thats a hell of a lot better than gaia world. not to mention all that tech should allow you to make your species planet viable if you havnt already conquered and enslaved/and or befriended your neigbors. Gaia world is utter garbage compared to ring world segment, and ALSO has a planet handicap!
L
Less2
Field Marshal
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Gaia is even more of a joke actually. Prosperous unification's capital modifier is flat out stronger than the bonus for being a Gaia world, with the additional 4 starting pops and normal habitability to back it up.
Badesumofu
Field Marshal
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Keep in mind that origins aren't meant to be balanced and this one seems like it's meant to be pretty powerful.
Dr. Crabnipples
Captain
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they should at some point make an attempt at balance
Methone
Field Marshal
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Dr. Crabnipples said:
they should at some point make an attempt at balance
I mean, they deliberately said "Some of these origins are meant to be straight-up more powerful than others", so I'm fine with it.
MN121MN
General
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- #14
Perhaps one method of doing this is not locking the species into its own "Ring World" preference like the Void Dwellers, but an additional trait ala the Void Dweller trait, e.g. Ringworld Dwellers / Survivors or something that gives you negative habitability and pop growth speed reflecting the fact that your species is already too used to living in an artifically created world.
Badesumofu
Field Marshal
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I don't think it needs to be changed at all, other than to maybe to have This Origin will make your game easier added to the description text or something like that.
Velorian
Field Marshal
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DreadLindwyrm said:
It would be a lot harsher because you don't have the facility to build new ringworlds with the origin.
You'd be crippled until end game.
If it was like the trait you get from life-seeded you could still colonize gaia worlds, and regardless habitats should still be 100% habitablity.
L
Less2
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Velorian said:
If it was like the trait you get from life-seeded you could still colonize gaia worlds, and regardless habitats should still be 100% habitablity.
You couldn't get habitats for a long time and taking advantage of your ringworld's research would be next to impossible without the ability to colonize worlds. Sure you might barely inch by through mining minerals from space and getting CG goods from ringworld buildings but then someone who can build alloys comes knocking and kills you because you are a Ringworld trying to get all the way to Habitats without a fleet for defence. Gaias, of course, are rare as hell.
Void Dwellers on the other hand can absolutely start building new habitats at least as early as the 2230s and quickly move to churning out a habitat every 5 years, then eventually every 2 years. They are quite competent as far as self-sufficiency and self-development goes, though some food from planets helps greatly. You tend to have enough minerals just as a matter of fact and your massive pop growth means you can throw down an impressive amount of trade once all the energy habitats are full.
BlackUmbrellas
Field Marshal
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Well, the AI certainly doesn't seem to run away with the game when given this origin, so I'm not terribly concerned.
Trithemius
Convoluted Antipodean
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Badesumofu said:
I don't think it needs to be changed at all, other than to maybe to have This Origin will make your game easier added to the description text or something like that.
Some text like that to caveat choices would be really useful actually. The hidden issues with Federated starts really harshed some of our MP players buzz.
Archael90
Field Marshal
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Ringworld has cheap (non-cost) districts (one of each) which means 20 researchers, or 5 merchants, and lot of food, but the origin by its own has 0 minerals, which extremally slower your develop. Yes you will be overwhelming on sciens in early-mid game, but without mineral deposits you would not have enough cg for researchers, and alloys for ships, and thats mean you will screw in warfere, and as we know, stellaris is all about the war, bcs even peaceful win require conquering other federations do your will be the one on galaxy.
Thats being said.
I dont think that changing habitability od pops would be buf nor nerf, it will still be random power depend on mineral deposits around you.
And dont forget that ringworld segments are 10x bigger than districts, which means that filling one is very slow, and manual replacement pops in specific jobs is micro-hell. Usually in late-game when you build your own ringworlds, you are specializing them in 5x one segment, and dont bother to replace pops, allow/dissallow and proritize jubs just to be sure everyone is doing what they should do to not be on deficit.
Having ringworld at start opens your ability to have 20 researchers, but building that segment means you are loosing all your food income, unless you start doing micro-management. For lot of players this is not a problem, lot of you are min-maxers who doesnt bother as long as you are the most efficient. But remember that stellaris used to be kind of RPG, and there are still plenty od players who are role playing and dont wont to do micro just to be the best, they just want to have some fun with game.
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